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Episode 43 –  An interview with Adam Sandow

Discover how you can 'green' your life by building a knowledge base of current sustainable and eco-savvy trends. This series will delve into hot topics, current standards and practices, ways to design better spaces, and specified materials that benefit not only us as consumers, but the world as a whole. Members of CaraGreen, as sustainable materials distributors, and other industry leaders weigh in throughout the series. This is Build Green Live Green. In this episode, we talk to Material Bank founder and SANDOW CEO Adam Sandow, whose innovative practices are changing the future of materials and design.


Jessica: Hi, this is Jessica with Build Green Live Green, CaraGreen’s podcast on the issues facing the building materials industry and specifically green building and healthy building materials. Today we are here with Adam Sandow who is the chairman and founder of the SANDOW Media Company and also the founder and CEO of Material Bank, which we will be talking about today. Welcome Adam.


Adam: Thank you. Thanks for having me.


Jessica: So Adam, I've been infatuated with Material Bank for a couple of years now, always trying to find the right time to engage with you. And we've recently done that with two of our brands, Durat and elementAl. First of all, I mean I just want to say thanks for coming up with this fantastic idea and this great service and you know, I think we kind of waited till it was the right time. But, we've definitely seen success and we are working hard to track all of our leads to make sure that we can present an ROI analysis on what Material Bank  has done for us and share that with our partners in the hopes that we can convince even more people to join your platform.


Adam: That's great. Thank you.


Jessica: No problem. And I also just want to throw it out there, the service that you guys are doing right now to kind of give statistics on what you're seeing at Material Bank  and being forthcoming with that data is fantastic. We have a sales call today where we shared that with our sales team. And I really appreciate you guys doing that for us.


Adam: That's great. That's great. Our business intelligence team is working really hard to really understand this really fast moving change that's coming out all of us. And again, we're trying to make sure that our partners are made aware and can plan accordingly to be as nimble as they need to be in this new world. I think we're absolutely entering a fundamental new phase in this country with business and how business is done and we want to make sure that our brands are on the leading edge of that.


Jessica: So that kind of coincides nicely with my first question, which was you know, what was the impetus for founding Material Bank at the time and given today's circumstances, how do you feel about kind of that concept and how timely it was given where we've ended up today?


Adam: Well, you know, in 2003, I started the media company and we started organically building media businesses, and then in addition to acquiring businesses all in and around the design space, both residential and commercial. Over the years since 2003, we've worked quite hard. We are the largest publisher of design media, certainly in the U S and I'm sure the world at this point in our size and scale; both in number of magazines and ads and partnerships and events. And really what we tried to do over the last, let's say five years, is leverage that platform the connectivity to the industry, to the users, to the manufacturers; to not only grow our media business, but to I think more importantly for the industry build tools and services.


We looked at where we thought the industry was struggling. We looked at pain points from both the specifier, residential and commercial and then the manufacturers. And we tried to either acquire companies, companies like Material Connection or Think Lab or other businesses we've acquired that really service the industry. And Material Bank  came about from all of that research that I, that I did in seeing candidly just how big a pain point sampling was, and how big a pain point searching for the right material. I mean, you know there are millions of skews of material. And there just wasn't a single place that made it easy for a designer, a developer, an architect to go to a single place and perform in many cases, complex searches, and then to have everything at their fingertips. We see– I kind of call it the consumerization of B2B, where you see that in the consumer world, there are incredible strides, you know, from Amazon to Uber to the travel booking engines. I mean, there's incredible convenience.


And we would hear from designers that they have this life of convenience at home, then they get to work and it's the Stone Age. And what we try and do as a company is bring some of those conveniences to the industry that, you know, now it's proven to save extraordinary amounts of time and resource. And I know how important Green Build is to you and your listeners. The sustainability savings have been staggering as well, so it's been a very interesting road to build a tool that has resonated so quickly and so deeply. And as we now face this new world and what COVID-19 as has done, luckily we've been able to respond without missing a beat and make sure that every one of our 250 manufacturers are up and running and making sure that the materials are going to the home of a specifier instead of an office, but that continuity has been critical.


Jessica: That's great. And I think what you were describing, you know, the kind of the Stone Age, you know, it kind of dovetailed at the same time with this idea of sustainability where people were trying to get rid of these cumbersome design libraries that had all these things in them and they were trying to go online. So I feel like you kind of perfectly met the intersection of those two things happening.


Adam: Yeah, no thanks. We saw that, we did years of extensive research. This was something that was so well-planned and I would lead a lot of these myself and I would go into these firms and we would talk to the senior principals, the young designers, the librarians, and we would hear the same thing, which is this library is kind of the bane of our existence. We want to get rid of it, but we need physical samples. And the idea of reviewing a physical sample is never going to go away. I don't care how good the augmented reality goggles get one day. You need to touch the material. That's the beauty of materials. There was this dichotomy where they wanted to go digital. They wanted to streamline, they wanted to shrink the libraries if not get rid of them, but they knew they needed the physical.


And that's why the platform we built so perfectly delivered the digital experience that they all wanted with the physical experience that we all need to make those decisions. And really what has happened for a lot of our partners is they've had to make less of the binders and the kits and the big green sets, and they're able to do these kind of just in time on demand sample fulfillment. And candidly, we're able to get a lot of those back. I mean, our packaging converts to a box and designers can obviously keep anything. But, because our packaging is so convenient designers will, we'll order a bunch of materials, they'll keep the materials on the shelf until they need them and then they'll return them when they don't need them.


Jessica: That's great. You know, one of the other things that you guys did when you kind of strategically put this business model together was the location that you picked. Can you talk a little bit about that? And you know, was that, I mean, obviously that was, you know, you're in Memphis very close to the FedEx facility. How long did that kind of process take to really find that perfect location?


Adam: So, when we launched the platform as we were developing it, we did a lot of research and we, we asked designers again, pain points on timing, and cutoff times. And what we found was that later cutoff times were something that designers really, really wanted because they're working really hard and they're on deadlines. And we made a decision to go well beyond what they even asked for. I think at the time, seven to eight o'clock cutoff was like a dream. And I said to the team, we're going to go to midnight. I want to make it so that a designer can sit in bed on an iPad and do the most complex searches across any material in the world, and place an order by midnight and have everything show up in a single box anywhere in the United States by 10:30, and that was a really order.


And you know, frankly, there was only one city really on planet earth that you can do that; that's Memphis, Tennessee because of the proximity to the FedEx global sorting hub. So, we basically took a map and drew a little diameter a little circumference around FedEx and we're able to find our first building that we built our first logistics center. We'll be out of that building at the end of this year and into a much larger one. It's still in the neighborhood, but that gives us the ability to go– we go into FedEx at two o'clock in the morning. So it gives us that service level that is unmatched so that the designer, you know, really we can over deliver. And it's funny because when we first started, we launched in beta; the orders were kind of stopping at around six o'clock, seven o'clock at night.


And I said to my COO, wow, I may have made a mistake here and we've come all the way to Memphis. We built this facility in the middle of Memphis, which we've never been, and the designers aren't taking advantage of our midnight cutoff. I may have been wrong. And what we watched when we really launched in January of 19 was this immediate progression to later and later and later cutoffs to the point where we get over 35% of the orders after five o'clock. And we were getting massive orders right up until midnight. So we've kind of given everyone this comfort that you can still go home, you know, have dinner with the family and then go back to work and get those samples out of midnight. I sometimes feel like some of the designers are testing us because they'll wait until 11:59 and 59 seconds and drop a large order. But, our team is really good at getting those out. And a lot of it is thanks to a lot of robotics that we installed the day we built that facility. We put a lot of automation in there expecting kind of complex orders and it's worked out well.


Jessica: Yeah, I mean, I think building materials industry is not one that, you know, typically you see a lot of technology and automation, so I think it's really good to see the industry embrace this. Let me ask you a little bit about the business model because there's two things here. You're talking a lot about servicing designers and obviously, you know, that's the space that you're in and you're listening to them. How did you come up with the business model and did you think it was a risk in getting manufacturers onboard and reaching a critical mass?


Adam: It's a really good question. So, you know, in the beginning we knew that if we could figure out how to deliver this service to the industry, my gut told that designers would love it and manufacturers would love it. We knew that it would work. The question was the business model. And in the beginning, in some of our research, we talked to designers and we said it will be a subscription fee. And every designer said, wait a minute, you know, we don't pay for samples now; we're not paying for samples. And it was kind of a quick discussion that that would be a tough way to start. So what we did is, we took away a lot of the risks for manufacturers and what we said is, I said to my team, we need 50 early adopters.


We need 50 companies because my thought was if I launched with 50, it was critical mass at least to get the chicken or the egg kind of rolling. And our business model was a really simple one. We said to manufacturers, look, we'll take all the risks. We'll build the website, we'll find the designers we'll qualify the designers. We'll take all of your data and put it up on the site. We'll promote your brand. We'll take all your physical product in the warehouse; we'll do all that and won't charge you anything. All we want to do is transactionally just charge you a fee. When a designer says, I want these pieces of stone or carpet or laminate, and we'll even FedEx it overnight and we'll include that in our fee, so we took a lot of the risks away.


Again, I think it was because they honestly trusted. They trusted me, they trusted my vision, they trusted my company. I think if we were an outsider, I think if we were a startup from Silicon Valley that knocked on the door of some of these big companies and said, we're here to disrupt the industry, I don't think they would be met with the support. But I think because the industry knew that, you know, when I would talk to CEOs, they knew something had to change. And I think that [inaudible13:46] very grateful that we had, you know, with our magazines and the way we've treated the industry and supported the industry in some cases, I mean, interior designs, 93, 94 years old; they trusted us.


They trust us with their data and their materials. And we were able to start up a pretty low risk business model. And that gave us enough critical mass to get the designers to at least come to the site and say, wow, there's a nice selection, and we'd like more. And we, you know, every two or three days we add another brand onto the site, and we're about 250 now. And it's been almost like a flywheel; the more brands, the more designers, the more designers, the more brands that we bring onto the platform. So, it's really become now the largest material marketplace in the world. And a place where, you know, not only designers and we talk a lot about and architects, but we have users at almost 18 getting close to 20% of the fortune 1000 companies. So you've got hospitality companies and cruise lines, which I know are struggling today, but we've got users at major real estate developers, major hotel chains, and all direct. So, they're interacting directly with the reps of the brands, so it's amazing. I mean, the hospital systems and the corporate headquarters, they're all using the platform to find the right materials.


Jessica: When you did this, one of the things that you guys did incorporate was this returns program. And the way I think about it, you know, obviously our products are, you know, kind of these sustainable, healthy; green whatever you want to call them. But, there's a good story here from Material Bank about getting just what you need and this take back program. So it's not like I send you a full set of samples, you pull one out, throw the other one aside or put it in your design library. I mean, it really is a– it's an environmentally– there's an environmental band here too.


Adam: Yeah. So we look at being sustainable in a couple of different ways. Number one, having a digital front end allows designers to kind of cold down, if you will, what they want to look at. Because they can see it, they can compare it; we're rolling out a new tool called material desk that will now be on the computer where you're going to be able to in another six weeks, build the most incredible, realistic pallets of materials that you can show a client. So from a sustainability point of view, one, you've got digital tools right away to help you. But then you've got two other really important features that drive sustainability. The second one and probably the most important is the consolidation of multiple packages in a single box. So, if you think about it, you never really see a designer say, I want one paint sample. They say I need paint and I need stone and I need flooring.


And, what we were able to do is from a sustainability point of view, having one facility, having one order platform; we can put all of those different materials in one box. So we've been able to reduce the number of inbound boxes to firms by 70%. In 2019 our startup year, we saved over a quarter of a million different boxes being shipped because we consolidated. In this year, it'll be close to a million boxes. So think about it, you're a designer– and again, this was a pain point. I'd go into firms; they'd walk me into their mailroom and say, look at this. And there would be a pile of boxes and peanuts and Styrofoam and it was a mess. And they said every day we deal with this. And I said, “I'm going to deliver it to you in one simple box,” so that's sustainability. That second piece, critical piece is consolidation.


The third piece – I candidly underestimated how important this was. When we launched the platform, we said, wouldn't it be great to have a take back program? Wouldn't it be great to have a bin, literally a bin in the firm? You dump everything in and we take it back. And I cannot stress the importance of getting materials out to the firms. The designers demanded– I mean I went to, I won't mention the name of it, but just about the biggest firm in the world. They walked me down to their loading dock and they showed me eight carts stacked and they said we don't want to throw it out and the reps don't want to take it back, and it's tough. So what I said again, and in my opinion, for things to really scale, it's got to be easy.


So we took this tray, right? Most of our materials come in a tray, but unless they're really thin, it goes in an envelope. It comes in a tray. We took our tray and I said, let's redesign this. And we redesigned it where our tray that you get in the FedEx box swings open self-seals and you can dump anything that you've gotten from us back into the tray. So people keep the tray for a few weeks, they fill it back up once they've made selections and it goes right back to our facility in one single box. And because there's only one tray, again, you don't have to remember, wait, the wood goes to this person and the bricks go here and the material goes– you just dump it back in the tray. So that third kind of leg of the sustainability story is being able to return it.


And what happens is it gets back into our facility and because we're experts at this, we open the tray and we quality control every single piece. And the pieces that are perfect go right back on the shelf to go out again. The pieces that are imperfect are put aside for students and or upcycled or recycled if we have to. So, there's this loop and we've had carpet companies where, you know, we're seeing carpet tiles go around three and four times. And what we also found is that designers are honestly being a little bit more careful with the material. They're not marking it up with a pen or ripping things off because they are also being respectful of the manufacturers and said, I can now have a very easy way to return it. I fill the little tray back, I throw out my mailroom, it's postage paid, Material Bank takes it back, and I know it gets back on the shelf to use again.


That's been a huge operation. We've had to train a big team to sort it. Every day we get a huge truck filled with these boxes, but it's really saving the manufacturers a tremendous amount of money in not having to make more samples. So again, it's another win-win that the designers feel good, the manufacturers feel good, it's a lot of work, but it also keeps our inventory levels pretty robust because we can roundtrip the materials.


Jessica: Right, and you know, the thing I've noticed during this pandemic, you guys have been really good about making sure that people can more easily return samples. Because now you understand that they may be a designer who's having to order for their home and having samples shipped to maybe three different designers so they can all kind of look at them and feel them at the same time like you were talking about before. Which kind of leads me to sort of a question I'm sure you've been asked a million times, but I'd love to hear your take on it. What has the impact to Material Bank been since COVID-19 when there's these stay at home orders, what have you seen and kind of what's your feel for the overall industry here? Do you think it's going to shift that more people will work from home now that they've kind of learned how to do that, and now that you guys were there? If I'm a designer behind my computer, I might be sitting there thinking, well I love the collaboration, but with Material Bank, I can sit here and work from home three days a week effectively.


Adam: Yes. Well, so there are many parts. One, we saw a record every month the platform grows every month because we just keep gaining more members. But, March was the first month where people actually went home, right. March was at that very crazy month where people mostly in early March picked up and went home. And we saw record volume. April is now ahead of March, or is ahead March, and may is tracking ahead again? It was interesting long before this was a pandemic in the country, and it was just starting to affect us, my COO was really ahead of the game. I give him credit, and he said, we need a nurse on staff. And I said, what do you mean we need a nurse?


He says, we need a nurse, we've got to protect our employees and we cannot let our facility go down; we can't. We're getting calls from manufacturers saying that they're going to shut down and we're there kind of last line of defense to keep the samples going. We brought on two nurses. I mean, this was I think, late February on staff to take care of our employees to do temperature checks and really with our warehouse team emphasize hygiene, and really take care of them. And we then broke up the warehouse and zoned it where there were workers really far apart. We even staggered break times and start times, so that there was– it really worked well. You know, luckily, very, very happily, we've maintained a 100% uptime.


What I think, and the other thing we did, which was kind of interesting; it was also my COO's idea; I give him credit. He said we've got to figure out how to make the designers feel comfortable that they're getting a delivery from us, so we actually bought Lysol. I don't want to tell you how much we had to pay for bottles of Lysol. And every package was treated with Lysol except for the paint samples. And we put a big sticker on it. And amount– even today, the amount of designers that posted on Instagram, thank you Material Banks for one, being up and delivering, but two, even going as far as thinking about protecting us when we're bringing this up into our home. It really resonated, and I think that something I'm convinced has shifted.


Look, in 30-days the entire world got comfortable with zoom. In 30 days people are comfortable with working from home, and I can't find someone but I don't talk to that says I feel different. I want to work from home, I want to be mobile; I want to be flexible. I think that what we're going to see is a complete and utter shift to a flexible environment. I think offices are going to become important as hubs, but I think that the flexibility that employees have, kind of proven. Listen, we have over 400 employees, and with the exception of the warehouse team, we've been running our business since the late February virtually. And my leaders have told me we've never had productivity [inaudible25:22]. Even our sales team is been very productive. So, I think that for manufacturers with big rep teams, the idea of a rep sauntering into an office in six months I think is going to be a struggle.


I think that we're going to see– if we're already seeing that offices– the government is going to start demanding separation. Just like September 11th happened, and what happened in big buildings, you needed to show ID, you needed to clear yourself. It was not easy to walk into a big building. I think that we're going to start seeing that in offices where offices become highly protective of their employees ,and visitors are not going to be as common as they were. So what that means is we've got to figure out how to support the reps, right? Material Bank is all about supporting reps. Material Bank is all about connecting with the designer and then immediately handing it off to the brand and to the rep. So I really believe that, you know, obviously no one wants a pandemic and it's ultimately going to be tough on business.


I believe for everyone, but the tool that we built in kind of the good times, I think we'll end up being in my opinion, at least a lifeline for brands that have to do business, that have to get in front of the designer and then have to still make that rep connection because reps are not going to be able to walk in and say, here's my new collection. It's going to have to be done digitally. I still think with trade shows, I think the idea– I was at a major textile trade show in Frankfurt last year. The idea of getting on an airplane and going to Frankfurt for a trade show with 50,000 other people I think it's going to be tricky for a while, so you know.


Jessica: I said the same thing yesterday. We were discussing the Greenbuild show in San Diego and you know it's a decision. I mean, do you yourself feel comfortable going, never mind. Would I be willing to ask my team to go if they weren't comfortable? So I think we're going to be dealing with people's personal comfort levels with a lot of these things. And I agree with you that it's going to change. We started doing virtual CEUs, you know, at the end of February as well because I feel like we kind of got a bit of a jump on this as well. We also did a podcast a couple of weeks ago on the efficiency of salespeople. My salespeople quickly learned, you know, I used to worry so much about what are they doing at home? Are they taking a yoga class in the middle of the day, like are– they really know how to manage their time. And we've just, you know, now they've learned how to really work efficiently behind a computer; we've changed how we communicate. We use Slack instead of just email, so it's really transformed my company and I can't decide when, you know, we get the green light to go back to work, what options I want to give people because I think that has changed pretty dramatically here.


Adam: I think you're absolutely right. I think that you and me and everyone listening to the podcast, and every business is having that same discussion. I also think that, look, I remember, I would get on an airplane and fly across country and meet with a CEO to talk about Material Bank, and I almost felt like it would have been insulting to say to them, “Hey, do you mind if we just get on zoom?” Today, I think it would be a welcomed option, right? And so think about how efficient the teams can be, and I think that as we continue to scale Material Bank, you know, we just completed a very large capital raise again.

Adam: Yeah. And we're going to– again, that is all for growth. That capital will be used to [inaudible29:12] some acquisitions, but we're really now triple down on our growth our expansion, our investments to make sure that we become the kind of platform that the entire industry runs on and really helping make those sales connections. At the end of the day, that's what we're singularly focused on is making the designer's life easier, making the sales team's life easier, connecting the two and making our industry run more efficiently. And you know, as we look at this changing landscape, as we look at how companies are thinking about their business; I think that that, as I said in the beginning where we are without question entering a new, I hate to use this word paradigm, but we are entering a whole new world. We're going to exit this crisis and we'll get through it and the economy will start to bounce back, but I think we're kind of forever changed. And I think that the companies that recognize that and react quickly to it are going to be rewarded. And the companies that are dinosaurs that still don't get it are going to really struggle. And we're really working hard to try and help our partners, and not just in Material Bank, but across all of our media brands to look at you know, what does it all look like? Because at the end of the day, you know, commerce goes on and building will go on, and expansion will go on, and you got to be prepared for it.


Jessica: Well, so, I can congratulate you on one thing is that I don't think you used the word unprecedented once, so it's a win.


Adam: No, we've had some pretty big precedents in this country with the great depression and World War II. And the one thing, Warren buffet said it the other day and it was so perfect, right? Never bet against America. This is an incredibly resilient, brilliant country that always figures out how to get through and react. And we've never felt stronger than that, but it's going to take people, employees; companies out of their comfort zone to adapt.


Jessica: Well that gets me to my final question here and I think it kind of ties what you were just saying together with what you're, you know, that you provide a service but the services for, you know, to get these building materials in front of these designers. So my last question to you is what does it look like when we go back? So we were kind of threw this out there in a blog post the other day on the CaraGreen site, but what does the workspace look like? I hear all these things about, you know, words like masks, and sneeze guards, and dividers and I'm sort of picturing this plexi-glass world that we'll back to. And my contention is, hey, let's not take all of that hard work we did to get beauty, sustainability, biophilic design all to come together, right, creating these healthy interiors, healthy exteriors, and not just change the entire meaning of the word health to be complete isolation. It really is about, you know, efficiency, comfort, all these other things. So how do we keep those two things together? You know, how do we redesign spaces but beautifully? What does the offer look like when you go back?


Adam: So, you know, I think it's interesting. I think we've got a short and long term. I think short term might be an odd mix of all of those things; very short term. But I do believe that that the design industry will react in a way that finds opportunity. I think, look, when everyone went to open floor plans and then farm tables, and now the thought is starting to be, do we go back to offices? Well, this might speed that up and it might speed back your kind of own private space, which many people would love. It takes up more room, but if you think about it, if you think about the office today, you think about a company that has 300 employees in an office and you do a couple things. You say, well, you know, one, we're going to have flexible environments, which means that maybe half the employees aren't there, half of them rotate out.


Well, now you've got more space to reconfigure where people actually have their own private area. So you can do so much more in my opinion with the footage by going back to having amenities, by going back to having collaborative areas with privacy, going back to actually your own private area, which has really void now. It doesn't happen because you now have less people in the office at a time. So, this concept of hoteling I think is going to become the norm. This concept of mobility is 100% going to be the norm. Every business has to be completely mobile and flexible. And if your team isn't ready to pick up computers and work from wherever, you're going to be stuck. But I think that this office of future, and we're doing this right now, we have 40,000 feet in New York City and we're now having those discussions.


How do we make the environment different? How do we protect people, but also how do we create more unique space? How do we activate the space in more unique ways? So I think that there's going to be incredible opportunities in our industry, especially in the office furniture industry and the design side of this to kind of reinvent what those offices are. So maybe you're not there every day, but when you're there, it's special. When you're there, there's a real reason, when you're there, it's a set up that really makes you happy you're there; as opposed to a kind of farm table benching that that might be challenged. So, I think that this is an example of how the industry is going to go to work and turn lemons into lemonade and have to think about reinventing the office.


I've always been obsessed with this idea of, you know, you constantly move around the office and you hotel the office and you let people work in different environments. I've always been a fan of that and I think we're going to see some real innovation in product and in design. And with interior design and metropolis and all the magazines we own that cover the workspace I think that they're going to be eager to start to showcase some of the best thinking. Because we don't want to lose; all those things you mentioned, all those healthy environments, you know, you don't want to go backwards and lose it. Because if companies don't react, if companies in my opinion just put up sneeze guards and put empty cubicles everywhere for distancing and that's what they leave, the employees will absolutely dread walking into that office.


I said it on a call yesterday. I said, if we don't do this right, it'll feel like a morgue. You'll walk into the office, the energy will be gone. You won't want to go near the office. And there is a need for collaboration, so I think frankly, it's going to become an opportunity for our industry to react and reinvent so that companies don't take what was beautiful showcase offices that inspired productivity and excitement and then turn them into something that is a kind of disaster area. No one will want to be in the office, so I think it ends up being an opportunity. It'll be a cost for companies, but it will be an opportunity for our industry to react and I think it's what we need.


Jessica: Well that's good. I like the way you think. We're very like-minded on this. So I think we've been, you know, curating these healthy materials in a different way. And you know, I would hate to see all that progress that has been done and all this work to create these beautiful designs that, you know, you highlighting your magazines and you know, just kind of lose all that. So, I'm glad that you see it as an opportunity as well. Well, Adam, thank you so much. Thank you for everything that you do in the design world, everything that you've done with Material Bank and taking a risk on something that you had a gut feel about that is really doing a service that I don't think many companies would survive without today.


Adam: Yeah. Well thank you so much. We appreciate your support and I appreciate the time on the podcast and look forward to doing lots of things together.


Jessica: Great. Adam thanks. This is Jessica with Build Green Live Green. Thanks, Adam.


Adam: Take care.

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